Expression for the Masses

# 1 02-02-2006 , 01:07 PM

Subscriber
Join Date: Sep 2003

Location: Harwich, UK

Posts: 1,195

Over the last month the issue of politics and other such subjects have seeped into other threads causing a few problems. To solve this I have made this thread as a haven for people who are in the mood to talk about anything like that.

Politics, censorship and any other issues that are on your mind at the moment can be freely expressed here.

This is not to say that this thread should be used to spread slander, miss information, or anything else that could intentionally cause offence to any one person but I would like to think that we are able to discuss these things as adults.

Be it the state of the British Liberal Democrats party, Blair seemingly loosing his grip on power, Bush's state of the Union address or the PMRC. Anything.

At least you know what your getting when you come to this thread.

With that said, let the descussions begin.

user added image

"You can live for yourself today -- or help build tomorrow for everyone" _LIVID

Optical Minefield
My Blog

Quote

# 2 02-02-2006 , 10:59 PM

Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2005

Location: Fairfield, CT

Posts: 2,436

Ummm... I don't really think any politics can be discused here at all, even if it has its own thread. I'm not sure. Ask a mod. If you already did, then sorry for posting this.

Live the life you love, love the life you live

Quote

# 3 02-02-2006 , 11:06 PM

Subscriber
Join Date: Sep 2003

Location: Harwich, UK

Posts: 1,195

I haven't asked, I didn't think it was necessary. It said that the Members Lounge was the place to chat about anything.

I know that is within reason so no swearing or other such unsociable behaviour but I can't see how politics (and the other subjects that I want discussed in this thread) fall into that category.

I can't see how something so fundamental to our everyday lives can be such a taboo subject.

I did notice that my thread about climate change (now seen as the biggest threat to mankind the planet has ever seen) has died on it's a*se. I just don't want the same to happen to this thread if possible.

Thanks for your interest though.

user added image

"You can live for yourself today -- or help build tomorrow for everyone" _LIVID

Optical Minefield
My Blog

Last edited by Tim_LIVID; 02-02-2006 at 11:13 PM.

Quote

# 4 03-02-2006 , 02:43 PM

Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: Brooklyn, NY

Posts: 3,708

sounds good - i don't have any problem with discussing politics, or whatever else, on this site - though keeping it all in one place is probably a good idea.

so, just to get you started. anyone see this? -

https://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/4675724.stm

WTF?? Painting planes to taunt Saddam?!

Quote

# 5 03-02-2006 , 03:09 PM

Subscriber
Join Date: Sep 2003

Location: Harwich, UK

Posts: 1,195

Well I think it is clear now to anyone on both sides of the water that the war in Iraq was not only started due to misinformation (some would go so far as to say lies) but I have no doubt that the major players had already made up their minds as to goto war.

Why do this? Well some may still say the dreaded word 'Weapons of Mass Destruction'. We now know that there is (and probably never was) any WMD's to be found.

Some might say to get rid of an evil dictator and bring democracy to Iraq. It is true that Saddam is a nasty guy who did horrid things not only to his own people but to neighbouring countries. The problem I have with that one is two fold. For one that was not the reason we were told in the first place. You can't change the reason half way through just because the first reason turned out to be a lie and secondly there are far worse dictators in the world than Saddam. People like Robert Mugabe or even the ruling house of Saudi Arabia.

I have my own reasons but would be interested in hear the opinions of other first.

As for painting the plane, you would have to laugh if it wasn't so serious. With the news of the 100'th British death in Iraq ringing in my ears to have to wonder how they can be so candid about the prospect of war and the loss of human life.

Anyway, if you liked that you'll love this

"You can live for yourself today -- or help build tomorrow for everyone" _LIVID

Optical Minefield
My Blog

Quote

# 6 06-02-2006 , 03:57 PM

Subscriber
Join Date: Sep 2003

Location: Harwich, UK

Posts: 1,195

Not totally related to politics but it's an interesting story.

There are plans (not sure if it is just in Britain) to start having health warnings on Chocolate bars. Just like they do on Cigarettes. I for one quite pleased and amused by this.

Part of the amusement comes for knowing when to stop. By the same logic you should put health warnings on Alcohol or (and I love this) having signs in the front window of McDonald's saying that you probably shouldn't be eating stuff in the first place.

What do you think?

"You can live for yourself today -- or help build tomorrow for everyone" _LIVID

Optical Minefield
My Blog

Quote

# 7 06-02-2006 , 10:35 PM

Subscriber
Join Date: May 2005

Location: Denmark

Posts: 118

Here is a nice political story for ya:
the majority of the Muslim World is raging at Denmark as a country because of 12 satiric drawings of the Profit Muhammed that where published by a private newspaper. Every time I turn on the news, I see Muslims burning the Danish flag, boycotting Danish products and attacking Danish embassys. Still can't stand the thought that 12 small drawings started all of this :headbang:

The private newspaper has apologised, but for most Muslim countries that's not enough. The want the Danish government to apologies, which is basically, from a Danish point of view, like saying sorry for having freedom of speech and press. NOT gonna happen.

Don't know if you have read about this already?

ps: Putting warningsigns on food is....absurd! user added image

Maya 4 ever baby!

Last edited by masn45; 06-02-2006 at 10:38 PM.

Quote

# 8 07-02-2006 , 07:56 AM

Subscriber
Join Date: May 2004

Location: Denmark

Posts: 816

Masn45 beat me to it.

Personally I understand the outrage of the muslim community, but on the other hand, I think that their actions and demands are outrageous!
I think that what Jyllands Posten (the newspaper who published the newspaper) should have given more thought to the consequences that an action like that might bring. Alltough I am not religious, I think that it is lack of respect for Islam to publish drawings of Muhammed when it is stated in the Koran that it is forbidden (I might be mistaken), and in a country with freedom of religion, that, to me, is unacceptable, especially coming from a national newspaper. Just because we have to freedom of speech doesn't mean you HAVE to excercise it.

As for the muslim response, burning flags is one thing (I'm not THAT much of a patriot), but the threats made to danish people everywhere from terrorist (according to some) groups and riots like the one this saturday in Damascus where the danish, swedish, norwegian and coloumbian(?) embasseys were burned, is way over the top. The muslim society has to understand that the JP does not speak on behalf of the entire nation.
There has also been cases of muslims living in Denmark writing letters to arabic newspapers that they were being treated badly and looks down upon here in Denmark. There was also a case of one of the members of the muslim community in Denmark, who on danish television said that the boycot should be put to an end, and then a few days later saying the exact opposite on arabic tv, that he supported the boycot.
Denmark is a free country, and if someone here feels that they are being treated wrong, there is absolutely nothing that keeps them from leaving. Just to make myself clear, I have nothing against muslims, and what I just said about leaving applies to anyone, regardless of religion.

Another thing that pisses me off is that when the editor of Jyllands Posten finally admitted, after claiming that this was in no way their concern and that it was something the Ministry of Foreign Affairs had to deal with, that they were wrong to print the drawings and apoligizes, he makes a side note that "once again, the enemies of free speech won". What a f*king moron!

That was a long one, but in short: Jyllands Posten made a mistake, Islam overreacted... But that's just my opinion

Liter is French for 'Gimme some ****ing cola before I break vous ****ing lips!"

Quote

# 9 07-02-2006 , 10:56 AM

Subscriber
Join Date: Sep 2003

Location: Harwich, UK

Posts: 1,195

Well this is an interesting story and no mistake and what makes it even more interesting is that is started in Denmark. Denmark of all places, one of the most easy going and placid places I can think of.

As an atheist the whole idea of religion as a whole is a little strange but this just raises the bar.

The Western relationship with the Islamic word is already like walking on egg shells so this clearly isn't helping.

My own opinion is that the media has rights as well as responsibilities and their right is to print stair. In modern society we can satire politics, celebrity and even ourselves so I think it's time that religion came into line with that.

I can appreciate that Muslims are offended by these cartoons in the same was that Christians were offended by Jerry Springer the Musical that was aired in the UK last year but just look at the difference in the reactions. Christians (which were probably more offended rightly or wrongly) managed to have peaceful demonstrations but the level of violence that we have seen over these cartoons is frankly shocking.

While on the subject of offence, what about the offence that is caused to the people of the July attacks in London having to see protesters with banners like "Kill those who mock Islam'. There really has to be some balance and most of all perspective in the matter.

As for a solution, I can't think one. Sure the violence will die down but what of the next time that somebody says or does something out of place.

It's that form of self censorship that we are starting to move towards now, for example, did anyone see the Rolling Stones performing in the Super Bowl? That had to censor some of the more sexual elements of their song 'Satisfaction'. Probably a direct relationship to the outrage suffered by Janet Jackson when she performed.

In closing I would just like to reiterate that these actions are not the actions of all Muslims but a minority intent on causing trouble.

Thank you for you time.

"You can live for yourself today -- or help build tomorrow for everyone" _LIVID

Optical Minefield
My Blog

Quote

# 10 07-02-2006 , 12:08 PM

Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2005

Location: Brooklyn, NY

Posts: 3,708

I obviously don't have any problem with the newspaper printing the cartoons if they feel it is necessary, but I find it hard to believe that they were not aware of the possible offence and violence that this would likely cause. I certainly don't exuse any violent reaction on the part of Muslims and if the newspaper feels that this was an area of free speech worth defending, than fair enough, but Jyllands Posten has also previously chosen not to print cartoons of Jesus due to the offence that they might cause:

https://www.guardian.co.uk/internatio...703501,00.html

Quote

# 11 07-02-2006 , 12:20 PM

Subscriber
Join Date: Sep 2003

Location: Harwich, UK

Posts: 1,195

Good point, but there comes a balance. I refer back to the case of the BBC showing the Jerry Springer Musical. You have to balance the likely offence that is caused with the artist right to expression. I don't think that anybody could have predicted this sort of reaction as it is totally unnecessary and quite damaging for Muslims so the sooner this ends the better.

After the 4 deaths at the protest in Afghanistan you would think that the heat would die down. Unfortunately not, there are still violent demonstrations going on as I write this.

One the plus side I am glad to see that Denmark are fighting (for want of a better word) back and are appealing to Tran to do more to defend their embassies and staff. Rightly so, why should they have to suffer the anger of these people?

One last thing, the protester that caused the most offence in the London demonstrations by wearing a suicide bombers belt has openly come out and apologised for his actions. Unfortunately for him he was still on his parole for drug dealing and by breaking his parole has been sent back to jail.

Whoops

"You can live for yourself today -- or help build tomorrow for everyone" _LIVID

Optical Minefield
My Blog

Quote

# 12 07-02-2006 , 02:48 PM

Subscriber
Join Date: Sep 2003

Location: Harwich, UK

Posts: 1,195

I just thought I would change the subject a bit.

On the advice of a friend who has the same views as me (and also on the recommendation of Jello Biafra) to have a listen to some of Newt Gingrich's speeches.

In honesty I was shocked, his speech was laden offence to almost everyone possible. Europe, Muslims and the United Nations. I'll be honest, I don't know who this guy is and I will have a look on the internet to try and find out but I sure hope he doesn't have any power.

This particular speech was given at a University campus and for someone like me it is worrying that such a man with clearly secular and (some might say warped) views on the world should be allowed the chance to influence the young minds of the country.

I would like to know what others think.

"You can live for yourself today -- or help build tomorrow for everyone" _LIVID

Optical Minefield
My Blog

Quote

# 13 08-02-2006 , 09:31 AM

Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2003

Posts: 1,257

ok ill bite...

The way i see it anyone that doesnt strives to comply with the universal declaration of rights is deplorable.

As for Newt the problem with him isnt that hes a secularist, the problem with him is that hes one of the greatest english sophists of this age... the fact that he is THE Neocon doesnt helps either (i even might be tempted to say thats where the "warped" thing on its pov comes from...)

Last edited by dragonfx; 08-02-2006 at 09:36 AM.

Quote

# 14 08-02-2006 , 10:36 AM

Subscriber
Join Date: Sep 2003

Location: Harwich, UK

Posts: 1,195

I have only got to the first 10 articles and can clearly see that very few countries in the work (non that I can think of right now) actually adhere to all of them. This is a great shame as I'm sure you agree.

Dud, I seriously think you would like some of Jello Biafras spoken word albums. He's a bit more of a fun version of Noam Chomsky, some of his stuff is a bit old and related to Regan but the views are still as relevant and still as important.

Gimmie a PM and i'll give you more info if you wish.

"You can live for yourself today -- or help build tomorrow for everyone" _LIVID

Optical Minefield
My Blog

Quote

# 15 11-02-2006 , 12:47 PM

Subscriber
Join Date: Sep 2003

Location: Harwich, UK

Posts: 1,195

Grimly interesting I though, as the subject of politics has taken a back seat I thought I should try and change it a tad.

https://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4698652.stm

"You can live for yourself today -- or help build tomorrow for everyone" _LIVID

Optical Minefield
My Blog

Quote