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04-03-2006, 02:54 AM   #211
Joopson
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not all supermodels are starved, my bros fiance was Ms.USA in 2003, and she never starved herself!
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04-03-2006, 05:19 AM   #212
mirek03
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yea, generalisations are dangerous. Things are starting to change in the fashion world but i meant that our preconceptions of the female body via brain washing, via the media and too many air brushed, play boy bunnies and penthouse girls (don't say you've never been there) leaves us with preconceptions that Jay has skillfully avoided.

but yes, you are correct. (your brother must be in heaven...)

back to the thread...
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04-03-2006, 09:40 AM   #213
Jay
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Yeah the media always show the bad stuff over the decent stuff so that will always be at the forefront of the mind when somebody mentions Supermodels. I think for me the most classic and best of the 'supers' was Helena Christensen. Shes curvy and not bony

Anyway onwards and upwards

Jay
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15-03-2006, 10:06 PM   #214
Jay
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No Updates for a bit as Ive been 'Busy' on other things

Anway started on the hair...
Jay


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15-03-2006, 11:57 PM   #215
mirek03
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15 pages of love labour!!!
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16-03-2006, 12:38 PM   #216
Helder
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Nice work jay, i just looked the entire body and i think the leg size isnīt correct.

Peace out
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16-03-2006, 01:59 PM   #217
Jay
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Your post is a little vague Helder, can you back it up with a comparison to something?



Jay
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17-03-2006, 02:23 AM   #218
mirek03
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Jay, don't know if you saw the other posting I did about this but I think it is something to consider, I know you'll tell me if I'm wrong

OK; looking through all the WIP I have noticed everyone is using mirror methods foe faces, whether instancing or mirroring along the X, ect, but I question this because if one is aiming for realism this method will never achieve it. Why; I think you would already know but; the human face is nit symmetrical. Get any photo of any person cut it down the middle and mirror the two halves to themselves and you get two completely different looking people, as a matter of fact they don't look real or human, they look strange. How does this work with CG, it seems to me, that if one does look at a real mirror half a photo and sees the difference that even going in to the model after the event to rearrange the face, it is too late because the difference between the left side and the right side of t face is ssoo different. I can't images photo-realism being achieved this way. Witness the 'Polar Express' true that it is toon but there is something defiantly wrong with the mirrored look of Tom Hank's face.

any comments on this, maybe my pencil upbringing again...
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17-03-2006, 02:40 AM   #219
Funky Bunnies
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indeed, any character artist knows that there are many differences between each side of the human form. I think that it's usually not a huge enough difference to require all new topology on the other side. I'd imagine just a few small tweaks and photorealism could be achieved. The differences, I find, are typically pretty subtle unless messing with old people or something requiring unique wrinkles and that sort of thing. Anyway, just my views.

Jay, I kept meaning to comment on this. It's looking really nice. The only things I don't/didn't like were the lack of slant in the toes and the parallel tendons in the hands but you may have already fixed those. Nice work on the rest, though. Keep it up, man.
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17-03-2006, 08:24 AM   #220
Jay
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Mirek

A Good point. As Funky Bunnies has said there are lots of differences that we notice and of course you wouldnt want to model a whole new half. I know I wouldnt. I think artists always want thing to perfection. But a good trick would be to build the halves together as mirrors etc and then tweak as necessary as already said.

Funky Bunnies: Thanks. Yeah I find it a little niggly when somebody says they 'dont or didnt like'.

You dont like the slant on the tendons etc, is that out of preference for how you would do it or they differ from a referenced set of images you have of 'one' persons foot and hand. As Ive stated a fair bit on this thread there are so many variants in all of us, its down how you are going to depict things at the end of the day form the source material you have. Its possible the angle the angle of the camera may be throwing them out for you. (Im not making excuses here, as its not my style) I'll check again but I think you'll find they are okay. I had a similar 'chat' with Falott on knee caps a while back, he posted me some knees but the ones he prefered were in a sitting down position, which if you think about it is a little irrelevant as shes standing up and the knees are stretching.

Sorry if I sound a little off on this reply, I appreciate the comments I really do, but I feel that some more solid crit would do it for me then I'll go and rectify it. Ohterwise....

Cheers Guys
Jay
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17-03-2006, 09:49 AM   #221
Funky Bunnies
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No problem, I may be using old images of these since there haven't really been any good angles for the hands and feet really since this post on cgtalk.
Anyway, after looking at it again I think the feet are only a very small fraction off that take away just that very small bit from the realism - for me. The hands are a bit different. Right now the tendons seem a little bit too parallel to me. I did a really crappy paintover or edit or whatever you want to call it, so maybe that'll help show what I mean a little more.





Of course, I recognize that everyone is different, so I guess the feet are mainly preference. To me the curve formed by the toes just doesn't seem quite right...I'm not sure if I even like my edit... but I could be wrong.
Anyway, those are obviously really small things. So far, I'm digging the rest. Keep it up, man.

Last edited by Funky Bunnies; 17-03-2006 at 09:52 AM.
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17-03-2006, 02:27 PM   #222
Jay
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FB

Thanks for you're input. I honestly appreciate the comments provided they are backed up, Im sure you understand, it just becomes a bit of a pain when I get a comment with absolutely no constructive crit added, in fact it pisses me off no end.

Anyway to the point in 'hand' LOL. The job on the hands and feet has changed a little since then. I ran them both by none other than Steve Stahlberg ( i kid you not) he advised me on the toes as they were fine generally but too long and the arc as youve pointed out (see the images youve gone over) plus the tendons on the back of the hand, interesting, as Ive lessened these a while ago, look how high they are, they really are too high, the knuckles in particular are, I redid these as well because again my wife was on 'hand' (terrible joke) so I took more reference for this.

Theres a fine line in everything on this work because of these minor differences, and again in ourselves as people, for instance my hands are really veiny on top but the tendons are barely visible only toward the knuckle whereas one of my dudes here has both that are quite prominent. So its all swings and roundabouts as they say, but overall artistic judgement comes to the fore for the final decision.

I'll post the hands from the top later once Im home, for a better angle so you can see they are 'there'

Cheers
Jay
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18-03-2006, 12:31 AM   #223
mirek03
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this work amazes me, how long have you been doing this Jay (this question could be a hazard to my health, but...)
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18-03-2006, 12:40 AM   #224
gster123
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Jay any chance you could give us electricians something to look as and show a wire of the model?
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18-03-2006, 04:23 PM   #225
Jay
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My Pleasure...

For you Electricians...more wires!

Mirek: When you say how long, do you mean this model or my 3d? In which case the model has been going since early feb on and off between other stuff and also taking my time on it too as its my main character in my project. Its the second time for it to be built as my experience and quality of modelling has improved a little so the old model didnt stand up to what I need. As for my 3d its started in '97, but did only a little then but it kicked into gear in '99, the rest is legend LOL and here I am.

gster123...hope these are okay. I did a wire too for funkybunnies of the hands, I forgot last nite!!

Cheers
Jay




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