ok, let me begin by with an oppology for something i said earlier....(i.e abouts germans) that was completely irrelevent... (my current boss is a pain and he just happens to be germans...but my bestfriend and 2 cousins are also german, so for this i appologize). Yes, cloth is a newbee killer, but fur is a bit more manageable, now that i figured out that all the features of artisan brush and attributes can be applied. frankly, i think modeling the hair and using tranparent and color map is more effective and easier, and on rendering if you don't have a super computer like some big studio.. so i think unless i am doing just a still i would use fur. i won't even talk about cloth... the physics are just wrong!!! :-( . i think i'll stick to paint fx and modeling for hair. thanx everyone.... again i appologize for some unfriendly comment i made :-)