Zbrush Face Study
 

Hey guys, long time no see, eh?

Well, i'm back in England (Derby) and have FINALLY got things set up again.

Anyway, I spent the last couple of days sculpting a couple of faces, and would like some feedback on them, just to make sure I'm heading in the right direction. I've noticed a few issues since sculpting them, but any extra input would be great!

Here's the first head. Main problem I note at the moment is the nose. Will work on fixing that.

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o.../Bust_015B.jpg

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o...ts/Ren_001.jpg

Here's the second face:

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o...Bust2_001B.jpg

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o.../Head2_001.jpg

Bit of fun here... added a tash... seems to change the character completely.

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o...ust2B_001B.jpg

Anyway, that's all the faces at the moment, I'm going to be doing more, but I thought I would throw up a thread and get some feedback.

C&C appreciated.

-Steve

Also been working on some composting in ZB and PS.

Weird Creature:

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o...ature_005B.jpg

I was going to throw him in the old character modeling thread, but i figured I'd put him in here with the newer stuff.
:beer:

Hi Mayaniac
I think these are realy good. may be the eye braws and tash could be done better but other than that I like them, are you using refferances for these, the last one took me of guard as it is totaly differant but I like that also. Then you say you are using zbrush and photoshop do you meen you are using photoshop inside zbrush............looking good dave

They seem to share a common lower jaw and lip but they are all really good mayaniac.

Looks really good mate!

Liking the sculpts, are they free form?

The PS work and Z's looking good, not too sure about the hard surfaces in there, well I am, sort of, I really like it but I dunno how it fits! Strange comment I know!

Hows Darby? If you manage to get over to Manchester at some point give me a shout.

@daverave. Thanks. Yeah, I'm basically just taking renders within Zbrush of different layers of the creature i.e: Dermal, sub-dermal, specular, etc. Then composting them in photoshop. Some of the layers are poly-painted for a better effect, but I'm still just learning poly-painting, so this one was just a test. As for the last guys hair... yeah, it was all just thrown on there. He's actually the same person (model) as the one above him, but I threw a quick tash on him, and gave him some better eyes.... completely changed the model. And yeah, I'm using reference, mainly just pictures of people's faces. But I mainly borrow features from multiple faces.... take the bits that I like from each.

@ctbram. Yeah, they're all sculpted of the same base mesh (except the creature). I guess some of that is seeping through the characters..... guess I could just sat they're related ;)

BASE MESH:

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o...D/BaseMesh.jpg

@gster123. Thanks, the face sculpts are done on a base mesh (above) and are based on reference images. The creature was free-formed from Z-spheres. And yeah, the creature is strange... as for the hard surfaces, it's meant to be more like a beak than a mouth.... or some kind of mix of both. I'm not really sure.

Derby's great, thanks for asking... just getting my bearings back at moment, and yeah, will give you a shout if I find myself heading to Manchester.

Thanks for the comments!

Would like to see the original Z sphere tool that you made the face from.

I'm starting to really get into Z spheres at the moment for creating basemeshes, then jumping to Maya via the ma file export, refine then back to Z, then again I thin that I may be doing one step too much, might as well just use Z for it all!

Come on Steve, get more pics up!

@Steve... Exactly! I barely go near Maya anymore for Organics. You can do everything in ZB at twice the speed, and twice the results (imo). The only time you need to go to Maya is for rigging and animation, Zbrush even has it's own UV mapping tool now! You can create all your blend shapes twice as fast, stack them up as subtools, then when you're done, just zap them across to Maya for animating/rendering... it's brilliant!

Anyway.... Here's some picks of the critter.

Started out as a basic 7 Zsphere shape.
http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o...rogression.jpg

Of course, I could Retopo it if I wanted. As I did with this old critter:

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o...ocess_01-1.jpg

And here's a few more shots of the head models:

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o.../Head2_002.jpg

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o.../Head2_003.jpg

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/Bust_014.jpg

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/Bust_011.jpg

I have a base Human model that i use for nearly everything. I have him poly-grouped, so if I just want a head, I can grab it... if i just want a limb, etc, etc. Comes in really handy. But if something is too inhuman, then I just throw some ZSpheres together.

You know, I feel really silly now.

I was expecting the Z sphere model to be really complex, god knows why!

Haha

I remember when I first looked at Z spheres in version 2 and thought they were great, but went down the maya route for base mesh creation as I felt like I was cheating.

I still think its better to create your base mesh in maya, lightwave and so as you have more control.........dave

Edit: may be I jumped the gun but I would need to see the work flow for animation and blenshape

If your starting off then yes, but with some experience the workflow almost full Z brush with a retopo mid situ to give arguably more control (as the base mesh can move with the sculpt)

In personal terms I probably would just use Zbrush to sculpt then retop then carry on, faster and more free and allows extra detail to be added in the retop section with more detail in those areas.

End of the day its up to the user, going the full Z route is daunting but free!

You don't really get that much more control. When your modeling in Maya, LW, Max, etc. From step one your mostly in a technical mind set. You have to lay down your basic forms, and a lot the time you're spent making sure all of your edges flow right, and that your proportions are spot on. And these sorts of edits take time. And I've found that even if I have a base mesh fully modeled in Maya, when I get it into ZB, I always end up changing it... pushing and pulling the forms, and generally cleaning up the shapes. Just because it's so easy... it lets your artistic side take over.

I still model in Maya, and there are advantages to creating your base meshes there, such as having your edge-loops in place from step one, having resolution where you need it, etc. Especially if you're following a concept.

Nah, a lot of the time there's no real need for your ZSpheres to be too complex. Especially when you're just winging it.. too much detail would just get in the way. Of course if you have a clear design you're aiming for, then yeah, ZSphere your heart out.

hehe, I used to feel it was cheating too. But then again, early on, I thought that modeling heads via the "edge extrusion" method was cheating too... as it seemed most modelers were doing it the Box modeling way. At first I couldn't get to grips with box modeling, but the edge extrusion method seemed easy to me... so, naturally, I figured I had to have been cheating. But, In the end it's what the final product looks like. It doesn't really matter how you got there.

Thats what I mean, I dont try to get the model any thing like finished I just get the extra polygons where I need them with a idear for a finished model. Where are you creating your UVs and where do you edit them. Could you give us a walk through of your work flow say for a model to be animated and texture............sorry lots of questions......dave

Thing is Dave, your model may change and then you need more detail on the base, doing the retopo in Z, without having to make a base mesh is a lot more free form and saves a step.

As for UV's I would not even bother unitll the Z sculpt is finished, then do the UV's as they can change if you UV a base mesh then sculpt, again saves a step, and I would prabably do the UV's in Z now with its plug in! Awesome!

Its horses for courses to be fair.

Agreed. A lot of the time you will go through a couple of meshes before you arrive at your final. It's not worth UV mapping your 500 poly Maya base mesh. I would UV map it right before i wanted to start backing off normal maps. Once the model was completed.

And yeah, ZB's new UVing tool id great!

http://www.zbrushcentral.com/showthread.php?t=082643

The more I look at your first model Mayaniac the more I like him, thinking of opening zbrush and model some thing simular but I have to meny other things to finish of........dave

Yeah, would be great to see it.

I was thinking about creating a speed sculpting thread... just to post 1hr speed sculpts or something. You see them a lot on other forums. It's a nice way to release your creative frustrations. That way if you don't have too much time, you can still get some ZB time in.

that sounds like a good idea would there be a base mesh as I am not upto scratch on ZSpheres..........dave

Edit: are you using displacement map or normal maps when you bring them into maya?

I haven't brought any of these models into Maya. They are just ZB renders/screenies. I'm just practicing modeling the face, these probably won't be used for anything else. But hopefully I can take things learned onto actual projects (full characters).

The speed sculpting thread would be an open thread, that everyone who wanted to, could post their sculpts or ZDoodles. Obviously base meshes would be allowed. It could be a "speed modeling" thread, that way it didn't just apply to ZB.

Had a little bit of free time today, so I decided to do a quick detail pass on one of the head models.

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o.../Head_001B.jpg
http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o.../Head_002B.jpg

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/Head_004.jpg

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o...s/Head_005.jpg

The hair's a bit of a crazy mess, but... blah

Hi Mayaniac
looking great, I think if you put the same texture on the eye brough it might bring it together a bit better..............dave

Thanks dave!

Yeah, I'll see about changing the brow, but to be honest, I don't really like the hair.. it was a bit rushed. I think I would much rather take what I've learned here and apply it to a full character.

Thanks again for your input. :beer:

cant wait to see this textured , you really have nailed organics steve

Thanks man. I probably won't be texturing these. They're mostly just for fun and a bit of practice.

Thanks again!

Quick body sculpt... face is SHAT.. but hey. And no real work on the hands... that's why they look plain, and a bit disproportionate.

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o...ts/Man_001.jpg

http://i341.photobucket.com/albums/o...ts/Man_002.jpg

If I decide to take it any further, I'll probably start the head from scratch... probably the whole body too.

Nice, the head is a little small but I think you know that...........dave

Those hands look ok!

I cant sculpt hands for toffee! can get them just about ok as a base mesh in maya but thats it!

gster123 you mention hand I think I do them wrong with symetry on, what is the best way to do hands, do one then mirror that?................dave

You have some strong anatomy skills baby : )))
I like what i see

@daverave: hmm, I will have to check the model in ZB. I do admit he looks a little statuesque (not in the good way). He does have heroic proportions, smaller head, longer limbs, etc. I'll probably blow his head up a bit. As for the hands I always (in ZB) hide the other hand, as it just gets in the way when you want to get up close and personal with the first hand. Then I just do a smart-resym once I've finished.
Thanks. :beer:

@gster123: haha, yeah, I hate hands, I would rather sculpt 5 faces than one pair of hands.... blah. That's why I was saving them for last.

Thanks

@ColdWave: Thanks man.

Thanks for the comments.

Looking great Steve, one thing I thought was that he has a slight resemblance to George Lucas..... Maybe it's just the hair, and he would be more of a muscular version too! lol

Hi Mayaniac
Could be me, I think it looks good any way, I stopped doing the project I was doing to do some zbrush stuff and that is down to you LOL..........hope to post some thing soon.........dave

@Dango: LOL yeah, I hand't noticed that. Thanks for the comments.

@Dave: Yeah, Would be cool to see some of your stuff.. Avatar was really good. Thanks for the comments.

Man all I can say is WOW, you are talented cobber!!! You certainly have the anatomical side down pat! well done bro

Cheers bullet

PS I agree with Dango, George Lucas (ceptin the body).

nice!

i'd like to see that tree rumpf that you were doing some long long time ago in a land far far away

@Bullet: Thanks man. I appreciate the comments.

@what's his face :p : Thanks man, Yeah I still have the concept sketch floating around on my hard drive. I don't have any plans of starting him yet, but I have started the Baron... if you recall that one.

Thanks for the comments D!

P.S I just love your profile statement mate, I piss myself laughing every time I read it!

I have never got around to doing organic charactor stuff (cause i think its hard)

Needless to say your model does nothing to convince me otherwise, looks fantastic:bow:

I think its hard too BUT if you lok at the human body or any organic they really are just lines like mechs. Its just a matter of altering/warping the way you think about it I reckon?

@paldav: Thanks man. It's no harder than most other subjects of modeling, hard-surface modeling, etc. It's just about learning the subject matter.... and never expecting to stop learning.

@Bullet: Thanks. Yeah, I forget where I first saw the quote. But I thought it was great..

And, yeah, you're right a lot of the process is about the lines, but you have to consider the forms and the underlying structure, and how if effects the surface. It's all good fun though.

Thanks for the comments.

Yes that is something I didnt think of Mayaniac, the underlying structures!!! At least with mechs you dont have to worry too much about that. I would like to try an organic tut once Im finished with Kurts Spitfire, just to expose myself to another form. You really do great work man

BTW the reason behind my madness, the wife gets cranky cos of the time I spend on Maya. As she is a fanatic of Eeyore I want to do one for her, I tried one but without ref images, just a photo and my eyes. It was ok but thats why I need to be more comfortable with the nurb nightmare, bahahaha

cheers bullet