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Old 07-05-2009, 03:59 AM   #1
ctbram
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Default mudbox ?

Has anyone used mudbox? I am thinking about trying it out and was wondering how it compares to zbrush.

Every time I try to venture into zbrush I end up wanting to throw my computer at the wall. Not because it slow the machine down or any performance issues but because I just find it baffling to use.

I have seen some mud bos stuff and it seems a bit more intuitive and has a more maya/3ds like interface, which to me would have a much lower learning curve.

Please I don't want to start an application war thread. This is for folks that have used both and can just give me some honest feedback.
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Old 07-05-2009, 06:18 AM   #2
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the interface of mudbox is very similar to other 3d apps as it is in a full 3d virtual world while z-brush is 2.5d virtual world.
I personally believe z-brush is more powerful but the latest version of mudbox does have a fair few more upgrades so it is getting a lot better but its deffinately worth giving it a go.
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Old 07-05-2009, 06:57 AM   #3
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Why not download the free trial and give it a whirl for 30 days?

with regard to Zbrush it is a little different in its thinking, but after a day of using you'll get it. And it is powerful. Besides how many games and vfx studios can be wrong?


If you want a quick comparison, I used mudbox and found it sluggish even on 64 bit Linux. Also it would fall over after a division of 12 million polys Zbrush went on to 15 on the same model before doing the same

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Old 07-05-2009, 07:34 AM   #4
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MB can also be a pain with your hardware too.

Z for the win, roll on V4.

As Jay said you need to sit down with a few of the free tutorials to get your going with it as it is a strange app to get your head round to start with.

Just got my PC going with vista 64 and lots of RAM and I dont have a problem getting to silly silly high poly counts 24million + in a single mesh with no slowdown at all.
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Old 07-05-2009, 11:11 AM   #5
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Thanks guys,

Jay:

That was my plan, to download the trial and see what I thought. I just wanted to get some feed back first.

All:

My system is getting long in the tooth. I am still running a 32bit processor (quad core 2.8Ghz) with 2GB (3GB if I use the -3GB switch as I have 4x1GB in the machine). I am running a geforce 8800 ultra gfx card. It was not bad for the day but it will need to be upgraded as soon as I can afford it. zbrush seems to run alright but I have not use it with anything to dense.

The land-speeder project was killing my system. It can only be rendered batch (otherwise I get an out of memory error). I had to start working in layers as rotating the model was lagging the machine.

I personally believe starting with maya 2009 I have seen a significant increase in crashes as I work on things. I believe it is because it uses more memory then earlier versions. So I really want to get into a 64-bit OS so I can get as much memory as I can runing at the fastest speed possible. I am thinking just under the top of the line I7 with like 16GB of memory and an nvidia 203 gfx adapter as my baseline.

But it will change as it is going to be a while before I have the cash to upgrade my system.
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Old 07-05-2009, 11:38 AM   #6
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If its a quad core then its already 64 bit capable. Have a look a getting a 64 bit OS and 8 gigs in there (DDR2 RAMS cheap now, and getting 16 gig of DDR3 for the i7 will cost a heck of a lot depending on the MB dimm slot availablilty) You could be up and running 64 bit with 8gig for about $100 (less the OS but you can always use that on your new PC too) and let the i7's come cheaper in price and save money in the long run (thats what i'm doing, letting the i7's settle in a bit and letting the price drop before going to em)

When I was running 32 bit with 4 gig (with the 3 gig switch) I think I could get to about 6-8 mil polys in Z per mesh but at that it started to become slow.

I also didnt see any stability difference4 between 08 and 09 on the 32 bit side, or even on the 64 bit for that matter.
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Old 07-05-2009, 12:10 PM   #7
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The reason being is that zb is only 32 bit program, the so called 64 bit zbrush is a myth. so you can chuck all you like at it, it just falls after a while anyway. We managed a 17million poly model on a forced 3gb of ram at Redvision, but even with quad core and a good card it fell to its knees after a bit. Roll on Z4!! But as I said before Mudbox was worse on 64!!

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Old 07-05-2009, 12:28 PM   #8
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Must just max out at the 4gig stage with the 32 bit addressing (with the application on a 64 bit system not being hampered with the OS taking up any), as I said Ive had it up to 24mil (not that I was doing anything with it mind you or looking at the RAM usage) on a mesh and it was running fine then again that may have been knocking right at the limit and begging for a crash if I poked it in the face.

The thing it that Z dosent care about the GFX card in the slightest its all down to the processor and the RAM installed, hopefully z4 will be able to take advantage of oodles of RAM
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Old 07-05-2009, 06:14 PM   #9
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I hope ZBrush 4 has GPU acceleration or at the very least is a multicore app.
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Old 07-05-2009, 06:34 PM   #10
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A core 2 quad can run 64-bit os?
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Old 07-05-2009, 07:18 PM   #11
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Pretty sure it can, i'm running vista 64 on a core 2 duo 6600, if I remember rightly all the core 2 family are 64 bit (other than notebook versions), you may ahve to check the MB to see if thats capable, but it should be, you may also need to find how to change the chipset in the BIOS to see more than 4 gig of RAM if you go that route.

Mastone I think Z is multicore/thread supported, you can run a test in the preferences and enable it or switch it off there.

I doubt it will be GPU accelerated, the whole GPU acceleration is a bit in the air at the moment, theres no real standards between AMD or Nvidia, it's more on the researchy side at the mo though I think it will come to the forefront very soon, also all of Z's coding based on the CPU and the RAM, though there could be room to port some over the the GPU using CUDA, but that mean it will only take advantage of cirtian Nvidia GFX cards.

I think that it will probably go up the route of utalising the CPU and the RAM on high core and RAM systems, I dont feel that 3.1 is slow anyway so not too sure where a major advantage of GPU would come in at the moment, though as a lot of things I could be wrong, only time will tell.
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Old 07-05-2009, 09:07 PM   #12
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Well hot damn! there may be some life in the old beast yet!

I have a Q6600 and a evga 680i mobo and I just downloaded both the xp and vista 64bit drivers.

I will go pick up 4 2GB sticks of ram this weekend and upgrade to vista 64bit.

Just deciding if I should go dual boot to save my current setup or not. This is my main system and I'd hate to wipe it and be out of service if I run into problems. I will definitely do acronis backup of everything before I get started.
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Old 08-05-2009, 07:47 AM   #13
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If you do upgrade to Vista 64 just remember to switch off all the start up bits and bob's that you dont need with msconfig (cant remember the proper name for it!), this will speed it up a lot, oh and the bloody user account control thing as thats a pain (a quick google will show you what you do and don't need. If you tweek it a bit it becomes nice and fast, I find it nice and quick, not had a single crash or a problem with drivers (make sure that you can get all the drivers that you need for other bits and bob's too) other than my graphics tablet, the latest one form the manufacturers site for vista 64 didnt have support for the pressure, but I used the one that I got in the box and its working fine.

Have a bit of a research into any problems that you may/may not have with the MB, I had to switch the chipset over in the BIOS to use the 8gig, it could see it but only use 4gig switched it and its been fine since.

Other than that it's been rock solid with Maya 09 64 and everything else.

Oh yeah a back up or a dual boot wouldent hurt either just in case you do have problems.
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Old 08-05-2009, 03:28 PM   #14
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Awesome advice gster thx.

I made an acronis image of my existing ms xp pro x86 install.

I downloaded the vista x64 bios update for my evga i680i.

I grabbed the 64bit video drivers for the nvidia 8800 ultra but I might upgrade that as well.
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Old 11-05-2009, 05:42 PM   #15
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Has anyone given 3D coat a try? It looks interesting
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