Maya Training

Introduction to Hard Surface Modeling

Maya Training

Interiors and Furniture Vol 1 & 2 - Modeling & Cloth

Maya Training

Shading, Lighting and Rendering the Bedroom in MR

Maya Training

Robot volume one - Modeling with animation in mind

Maya Training

Spach-Alspaugh House the complete courseware

Maya Training

Burt The Cartoon Dinosaur Vol 01 - Modeling

New Maya Training

Robot Volume 02 - Hybrid Rigging
You are here > Home > SimplyMaya Community Forums
Loading

Welcome to Simply Maya

Please Sign in or Sign up for an account

Member Login

Lost your password?

Not a member yet? Sign Up!

Old 02-01-2007, 02:23 PM   #1
Jay
Senior Modeler - Framestore
 
Jay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 6,234
Thanks: 39
Thanked 425 Times in 381 Posts
Default ***TOPOLOGY***

Hey All

Lets Use this thread as a discussion for character topology. Post up your images of your character meshes in here to get some advice for your own WiP's

I'll start this off with one of my own on a head....The base mesh before a level 1 Subdivision Surface conversion

Jay
Attached Thumbnails
 

Last edited by Miss_Nova : 03-12-2010 at 06:19 PM. Reason: Thumbnail
Jay is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Jay For This Useful Post:
bayasah (29-02-2012)
Old 02-01-2007, 04:20 PM   #2
marlonjohn
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,937
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Here is mine,

A question from me Jay, ived always wanted to know and maybe some other people, what is with all that level 1-5 i think mesh etc?



Marlon

Last edited by marlonjohn : 02-01-2007 at 04:22 PM.
marlonjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2007, 05:00 PM   #3
enhzflep
Subscriber
 
enhzflep's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 313
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

And here's another.. 572 faces - way to many of them triangles, I reckon.
Attached Thumbnails
 
enhzflep is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2007, 05:35 PM   #4
gster123
Moderator
 
gster123's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Manchester Uk
Posts: 6,300
Thanks: 1
Thanked 51 Times in 45 Posts
Default

Well, heres the head that I did a while back, i've not changed much just cleaned up the geometry a bit and then went on to modeling the torso.

Think it could be more efficient and better with more ref, but as this was my first "proper" go I thought it came out ok.
Attached Thumbnails
 
__________________
"No pressure, no diamonds" Thomas Carlyle
gster123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2007, 05:39 PM   #5
gster123
Moderator
 
gster123's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Manchester Uk
Posts: 6,300
Thanks: 1
Thanked 51 Times in 45 Posts
Default

Jay, gotta say I love the flow round the jaw area on yours, looks very efficent.

Do you keep it all quads or do you let the odd tri in as your post on Cgtalk? Or is it just for what your going to do with it?

Joining 3dsk soon so when I get some good ref i'm gonna give a head/human another crack, trying to keep the mesh efficient.

Cheers
__________________
"No pressure, no diamonds" Thomas Carlyle
gster123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2007, 06:17 PM   #6
vladimirjp
Subscriber
 
vladimirjp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: stuck in the 90's boston, USA
Posts: 1,871
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Default cool thread

nice base mesh Jay.

but i personally shy away from poles [5 faces sharing a single vert]
rigging it is sometimes fustrating; trying to equaly distribute weights accross 5 faces. thats a main reason why perfect squares are preferred. they sometimes look odd when deformed at extreme poses [on cartoony characters for instance]
also poles on Sub D especially, give bad specular highlights.

i would tweak a few more spots myself. nice start tho.
as for N-gons, i have not yet had any bad experiences with them when i do poly smooths instead of subD.
so , i love n-gons because of the flexibility
Attached Thumbnails
 
__________________
Image dump

Last edited by vladimirjp : 02-01-2007 at 06:25 PM.
vladimirjp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2007, 06:26 PM   #7
marlonjohn
Subscriber
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,937
Thanks: 0
Thanked 8 Times in 8 Posts
Default

hey vlad, just out of curiousity... is it possible to have all quad faces instead of having a couple 5 sided faces sharing 1 vertex as you said about jays mesh? never really seen one to be honest,
marlonjohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2007, 07:13 PM   #8
vladimirjp
Subscriber
 
vladimirjp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: stuck in the 90's boston, USA
Posts: 1,871
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Default

sure its possible. but not worth having.
but its best to place them in areas that dont deform much or in areas that naturally collapse on themselves like corner of the nosewhere the nostrils are.
this is not written in stone. its just my preference when modeling for animation.
__________________
Image dump
vladimirjp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2007, 07:28 PM   #9
Jay
Senior Modeler - Framestore
 
Jay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 6,234
Thanks: 39
Thanked 425 Times in 381 Posts
Default

Wow a great start to the thread...excellent.

I'll answer as much as I can now as Im at work.

Marlon John: Levels of division etc... There are 2 ways to look at these. 1) If you are modeling on a subd surface, you can right click over the mesh and select Finer, this will then place Level edits to your mesh ie; level 1 upwards, allowing you to model in more detail. However these can cause problems when you go back to a base poly mesh you can lose the detail and when/if you convert to a poly for the final model the mesh would simply be too dense, in those Level Edit areas. 2) Levels of Subdivision are also when you choose to add more geometry to a lower res poly model, you can either choose subdivide or poly smooth the mesh by typing in a value from 1 upwards. I hope this all makes sense.

gster: Good effort though I think less geometry would be good and work on those loops. Thanks dude, Everything is quad in ALL my models there are no tris at all, not even at CGTalk, its probably the angle.

Vlad: Cheers dude, I dont have a prob with the poles, the one on the lower jaw isnt thats the angle (again on that) I'll post up a close up later once Im home. As I do blend shapes for my facial expressions I know what the rig is doing as opposed to having joint deform the face, and NGons too I dont have a prob with, I think theres plenty in the ears LOL. Looking at a lot of Stahlbergs work he has 5 siders in some strange places, even on the face in areas such as cheeks, he doesnt worry about those, just as well really hiswork is pretty darn good.

Anyways lets keep this rolling

Jay
Jay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2007, 07:44 PM   #10
Jay
Senior Modeler - Framestore
 
Jay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 6,234
Thanks: 39
Thanked 425 Times in 381 Posts
Default

LOL Vlad, my bad that is a pole on the jaw LOL, apologies dude...

Cheers
Jay
Jay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2007, 07:52 PM   #11
gster123
Moderator
 
gster123's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Manchester Uk
Posts: 6,300
Thanks: 1
Thanked 51 Times in 45 Posts
Default

Cheers Jay,

As you said about the geometry and loops, i'm keeping that in mind for my next go.

I think its something that comes with practice starting over and trying to tweek as much out of the basic shapes right from the start and not going for the split poly tool (or whatever method peeps use) right away to add detail and loops (which is what I did and then came a cropper and went back to try and reduce the geo and readjust the loops!!) which I think looking at other posts, it affects other "organic starters" too.

Cheers for posting yours Jay, i'll be refering to it when i'm giving my next model a go! LOL, which I will be posting in here when I get it going (might be a while as i'm gathering info for it at the mo)

As you say about Stahlbergs work, he has a few ngons and tri's, suppose its just a matter of knowing your job and getting them in the right places.
__________________
"No pressure, no diamonds" Thomas Carlyle
gster123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2007, 07:56 PM   #12
vladimirjp
Subscriber
 
vladimirjp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: stuck in the 90's boston, USA
Posts: 1,871
Thanks: 0
Thanked 4 Times in 3 Posts
Default

cool man.
this shtread might motivate me to model again, i havent done that in months.
ill probably make something like a cartoony guy.
__________________
Image dump
vladimirjp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2007, 10:43 PM   #13
Jay
Senior Modeler - Framestore
 
Jay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 6,234
Thanks: 39
Thanked 425 Times in 381 Posts
Default

Hey Vlad
yeah do it dude!!

gster:
No probs, it helps to actually draw your meshes too so you have an idea where to begin. As Vlad said earlier nothing is set in stone in terms of the 'right way' its a preferred way.

I would also recommend looking at the main muscle groups in the face and how edge loops resemble those, it makes more sense when you see it this way, you then understand how things work and the benefits of edge loops for animation purposes.

Cheers
Jay
Jay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2007, 10:51 PM   #14
Jay
Senior Modeler - Framestore
 
Jay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: UK
Posts: 6,234
Thanks: 39
Thanked 425 Times in 381 Posts
Default CONSIDER YOUR QUAD OPTIONS

Ive attached a diagram of different types of quad possibilties. Obviously the first one is the desired one but sometimes you have to bite the bullet and go a different route. The second and third option work well in a manner of areas, obviously not overly desirable where deforming of the mesh is concerned but as I said sometime you gotta bite the bullet, and lastly the 5 sided poly, again not one for deforming areas (preferably) although it can be, but use sparingly, ideal for terminating edges when you dont want to add even more geometry.

Jay
Attached Thumbnails
 
Jay is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Jay For This Useful Post:
mike88 (25-08-2012)
Old 02-01-2007, 10:53 PM   #15
gster123
Moderator
 
gster123's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Manchester Uk
Posts: 6,300
Thanks: 1
Thanked 51 Times in 45 Posts
Default

Cheers Jay, I'll keep the drawing in mind and do a few scetches over some reference pics prior to opening maya in my next project.

Ive got the "Maya secrets of the pros" book, which covers a lot of the loops, muscles etc, but I really need to get into animating facial rigs etc as I've only ever animated "solid" object interations, I think thats when the the button will click in the old brain!
__________________
"No pressure, no diamonds" Thomas Carlyle
gster123 is offline   Reply With Quote

A little bit about who we are
Links you might find useful
Catch up with SimplyMaya
SimplyMaya specialises in Maya tutorials. We offer over 1,000 individual Maya training videos, ranging from basic Maya tutorials through to intermediate Maya tutorials. Our tutorials are created by instructors with industry experience and are designed to get you up and running in Maya quickly without making it seem like hard work.

Copyright © 1999-2015 SimplyMaya - vBulletin® Copyright © 2000-2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.