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# 1 23-01-2006 , 01:20 PM
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Natural Lighting workflow - Asian Pavilion

Hi dudes,


I switched 2 months ago on Maya (from C4D which I love since the very beginning ...), cause I was a bit disappointed 'bout the way it computes FG/GI ... mostly when using HDRI maps. Not that it's bad on this particular point, but Mental Ray is far more accurate with bounces.

So, as I got to completely review all my lighting workflow in Maya (... being really, really poor with light types and settings), i'm starting with this project.

What I intend to produce is a natural look, mostly concentrating on photons and their bounces, shadows ... and respect of their relative colors according to time, orientation and so on ...

I like tricky situations (as these are best to improve hehehehe). So I decided not limitating the analysis on 1(2) windows, and 1(2) lights, with HDRI, as often done, but more smthg goin this evil way :

- Entry :
7 small squared windows with thin frames, no grid, only thin one around each (5 south, 2 north).

- Main (with some future floating glass bed-platform) :
1 main large window with a thick grid-frame (south)
4 non-direct (corners) windows with kinda venetian blinds
2 rear, window and door (north)
2 secondary windows (east)

- kitchen/canteen
1 window (north)
1 window (east)
1 high window (south)

user added image

What I want is having all sorts of lighting situations.
- Darken and isolated room, with weak lighting (like the entry corridor, west).
- Large room with heavy local lights and photonic sun which will share lighting with the 2 extreme rooms.
- Small opened room (canteen , east), with a particular high window, half occluded (sun concern) by the roof.

Translucent wires on elevations gives you an idea of the weird proportions I choosed.

user added image

I used ALL light types amongst the 17 lights i used (except ambient, which I don't really need, as photons are heavily bouncing everywhere - 1 million photons, from SUN light. I pushed on that chapter as told earlier).


Here are renderings of each main light-groups.
user added image

Top-left is SUN (white) only rendering, with 1Mill photons, very high intensity, optimal 3 bounces setting and a light radius to get a result close to area shadows, but with much lower rendring times.

Top-right are south-windows distribution only (light yellow). No photons but shadows as accurate as possible. Some with shadow maps, others, with light-radius setting on raytraced one. Ones adding light effect from a very bright outdoor ground, as if it was photonic bounces from a very bright noon summertime.

Bottom-left are is the backlighting (light blue) from north AND side lighting (light orange, from east).

Bottom-right is my false HDRI (which is a reconstructed 360°*240°) environmental map. False because it's 32 bits standard picture. I don't really care here 'bout the lighting being a bit too weak (cause of the 24 missing bits par color chan), as the lights really give me the control I want. So I use it mainly for reflections (wooden ground) and also to avoid having dark windows, with bright lights through them ...'t would sound too bizarre.


Something very important so far to mention also is that AMBIENT OCCLUSION is still missing. I'll render this pass when project completed. I don't want fg_occlusion nor amb_occlusion when tuning lights, cause it would be harder then spotting light errors in order to tweak them ... mostly with bounces and gatherings in the corners or small shadowed areas.


well ... STOP PYRUS !!!!!! hehehehe

I won't explain ALL HERE NOW cause i'll write kilometers otherwise, and i'm still tweaking and modeling remaining and unfilled spaces. I'll finally post a complete analysis which I hope will become a reference in this area, for beginners, and why not, for pros much more involved in modeling/texturing than lighting workflows.

Entry/corridor is almost filled up with books, shelves, sofas, frames and so on now .... so i'll soon post further evolution of the concept.


Crits are of course, welcome user added image


Regards, Py.


Last edited by Pyrus; 23-01-2006 at 01:47 PM.
# 2 23-01-2006 , 02:36 PM
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hmm, despite an elaborate set up, the first set of renders are not that great.

what i think you should do is start with a single light [sun light] use s ingle point of interest. [even though you want to do different time of day renders, this will be a good starting point]
after deciding a god point of interest, try to get desscent result without GI or FG [so u get a good intensity to start with. as of now maya's light settings are not real world; like maxwell render]
then gradually add GI and FG,
when u get a good result and have gone as far as you can go with a single light [sun] light source, then add fill lights.
also remember that u can use blocking objects to emit light with MR.
also there are much better shader you can use to speed up FG irradiance shader
here are some cool test renders with a single light source Here


P.S. post your render settings as well.

# 3 23-01-2006 , 04:14 PM
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hmm, despite an elaborate set up, the first set of renders are not that great

Well, in this set, only central image is relevant. I only put the A-B-CD & E renderings to explain how i'm tuning lights addition.

So, if you were talking about the central one (without ambient occlusion yet).
Could you please Vlad tell me what is not that great with renderings ? user added image
Please, cause I asked some friends, painters and photo professionals. They were quite optimistic so i'm a bit confused. Please also consider Ambient occlusion is a key to realism, and this pass is still missing. Well, some clues 'bout areas for which you think light is kinda impossible or messy or else would be greatest help.


Originally posted by vladimirjp
what i think you should do is start with a single light [sun light] use s ingle point of interest. [even though you want to do different time of day renders, this will be a good starting point].

Yeah i totally agree with ya Vlad, about the workflow and step by step lighting. It's precisely how I begun, sun/photons. Then i added windows lights according to estimated relative strength : south overexposed, than side (east) medium exposed ... and finally, backlight, more weak (though i kept some brighter lights on corner windows).

As I don't have only 1 window, I used light-groups, and rendered them with various combinations , to compare how lights were adding onto each others cause that's my main concern, dealing with many lights directions.

Central one is the full rendering, all groups active.
(NO AMBIENT OCCLUSION yet)
user added image

This is another rendering (low precision within MR settings, why some photons hits are more visible). Also I've set the SUN with some light radius in order to get kind of a blurry depth shadow maps ... a bit too strong i confess. It shouldn't be that blurry on the burned wall corner).
user added image

>> Comparing these renderings definitely tells me i'll have to tune lights when scene is totally finished. Cause simply adding the panels turned the "reading-area" more dull as I expected, but i was not expecting that much. Well, learning and discovering hehehehe.


P.S. post your render settings as well

Yups, I will for sure. I intend doing this when posting the final explanation in "Finished work". But i will post the default ones i'm using right now.


Many thanks for taking the time answering, these are all jewel crits and advises i'll take into consideration ... a bit later, cause now i'm filling up the spaces. Then i'll redo lighting step by step, hoping you'll accept following the tuning closely


Cheers dude user added image


Regards, Py.


edit : please CRT users tell me if it's generally too dull, cause i'm using TFTs. As these tunings are pretty sensitive.
Thx a lot.


Last edited by Pyrus; 23-01-2006 at 04:17 PM.
# 4 23-01-2006 , 07:00 PM
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looks awesome dude .. i think so anyway

# 5 24-01-2006 , 09:13 AM
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I think i tlooks really awesome too. I would love to live in one of th ose, and the way you set it up, you seem like a contractor. user added image

# 6 24-01-2006 , 11:11 AM
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Thx a lot for encouragements guys user added image

Hehehe Anslaught, i'm not contractor but i would work with/for them, you're not that far :blush:

On the other hand, searching for refs, explanations and so on, I must admit it misses some irradiance as Vlad mentioned trough the link.
I'm still trying to figure out how tuning this (from the very first light : sun).


I also used the mib_amb_occlusion texture within ambient chan of a default lambert. But when hiding all lighting, as this as to be done when rendering the occlusion pass with the new MR/texture, i'm a bit stuck. The ambient is occluded too much by the roofs user added image
I understand why, it's pretty logical in some way ... but well, i'm blocked lol.


Though I think the result is good enough for what I want it used for >> Renderings will become gfx parts of website I will use to "convince" architects asking us to model their projects. Well, some will consider it convincing, some others won't for sure.


Thx again dudes.

Regards, Py.


Last edited by Pyrus; 24-01-2006 at 12:02 PM.
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