Beer glass scene creation
This course contains a little bit of everything with modeling, UVing, texturing and dynamics in Maya, as well as compositing multilayered EXR's in Photoshop.
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1
30-03-2012
, 07:34 PM
Subscriber
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PAY ME for the privilege of working for me!
After the recent "Guru incident" (https://www.canadiananimationresource...age=1#comments - read the comments) I doubted that a company could sink any lower, but here it goes, Digital Domain's CEO John Textor has a proposition for you:
https://www.canadiananimationresources.ca/?p=6049
Think twice before considering career in this industry..
Last edited by nov2011; 30-03-2012 at 07:48 PM.
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2
30-03-2012
, 08:36 PM
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I don't want to live on this planet anymore!
Not paying interns to work is already evil enough but now they figured a way to get them to pay for the privilege to work!
I don't want to live on this planet anymore!
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675
Last edited by ctbram; 30-03-2012 at 10:23 PM.
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3
30-03-2012
, 09:31 PM
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4
30-03-2012
, 10:19 PM
Technical Director
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Imagination is more important than knowledge.
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5
31-03-2012
, 12:27 AM
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Posts: 139
You got lucky then. Interneship isn't a bad thing, if it's purpose is to train newcomers, but the company shouldn't take advantage of them - e.i. make money of interns free work.I worked for 2 summers without pay. It worked out well for me. I was offered a full time job right after the second. I got to do what I loved, and meet some awesome people. But I guess it's different when you're a highschool student with no student loans.
The situation at the beformentioned studio was a bit different.. Many people who worked there for 5+ years were laid off and replaced by unpaid interns. The interns were working under 8 months long contract (that's an entire show) on an actual production that the company was being paid for by the networks. As to the scope of the inter-ship.. they posted ads for: storyboard interns, layout interns, modeller intern, rigger interns, animator interns, lighting interns, texturing interns.. basically the entire crew, while the now ex-employees were waiting for call-back.
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6
31-03-2012
, 12:48 AM
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cheers bullet
bullet1968
"A Darkness at Sethanon", a book I aspire to model some of the charcters and scenes
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7
31-03-2012
, 04:00 AM
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If this grows I hope the industry will just see a lot more people setting up there own companies and stronger independent projects while the lesser talents will go and work in the big studios. I myself have not heard or worked in any of the big film studios, but have heard enough to stop me wanting to work at any of the top video game ones. I personally would not want to work in a job where the main phrase said at the end of each project is "it got done".
It is getting a lot easier to create stuff these days though and I believe if they push this idea they will simply end up with much more competition from smaller teams who can massively undercut them due to much lower expenses. In my experience paying less never works, always costing you more in the long run. A professional will always do a great job and often exceed your expectations and requirements to deliver you a great product. If you hire a beginner you tend to end up doing more of the work yourself, fixing problems etc, because of this the cost will often equal what you would of paid to hire a professional as you try to repair what was a broken plan from the off and may well go unfinished.
This said it all depends on the project, if you are creating professional work that is making good profit you need to find and hire professional people to work on it. If you are creating lesser work with little to no profit you hire people who are starting out, improving reels or trying to gain experience.
I worked on a indy film some time back which is still in development now, the main animator was one of the best I have seen and worked with, able to produce outstanding work in very fast timeframes. He's rate was insanely cheap due to his starting out and building a folio of work to enable him to move onto bigger projects. The team he works with recently won the oscar for best animated short.
No one is going to give you a professional job from the off and this is why junior positions exist, I have not worked in a professional position in a high end studio and so would have to move into a junior role should I wish to work in the industry for a big company. Should the small team I am working with succeed and make a video game this would likely still be the case. I am very understanding of this, but I cannot understand how you can have someone pay you to do a juniors job. To me it is fundamentally wrong and if it grows it will only hurt the large companies in the long run.
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8
31-03-2012
, 09:00 AM
Lead Modeler - Framestore
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But theres always catch 22......and Im summising here....
'Joe Intern' goes into said company and works his butt off for free as he would be eager to impress, but gets to work on a cool movie and therefore gets to put some neat stuff on his showreel, albeit comp, modelling and so on. Now his time is up and he must leave, but he has all that stuff on a reel and can look for a job elsewhere...not so, he applies left right and centre for a job and gets nowhere....why?....simply because a studio can turn around and say well we dont need him/her because new 'Joe Intern' thats working for us now is doing it for free.
But, the upside is that if the intern guy or work experience dude who worked for free proves his mettle while doing the job, chances are that he'll be asked to stay and actually get paid. Granted he'll start at the bottom of the ladder but shit, he got in there because he was good. Studios are good like that when it comes to staff they value, they wont let them go.
With regard to Pros doing a good job and getting it done and juniors doing less...not so. When I worked on John Carter I was a mid level modeler, and I did some get to do good models and also some mediocre background ones, its part and parcel of the job. But what opened my eyes to the industry in a big way, that I was actually asked by a producer from a recommendation of a supervising modeller on another show to fix models created by senior and lead modellers....I was shocked at what I was seeing. It made me ask who deemed / how the person above me actually got into that position in the first place. Alot of you would be mortified it was just laughable. One guy actually recieved a full A4 paper from me with all the redos he needed to do (he was a senior too) So my point is you prove yourself valuable and you will get ahead, just do it right and you wont ever be used.
Jay
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9
31-03-2012
, 01:05 PM
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I have an old high school friend that is the VP of engineering at a small company and they used to have about 10 full time employees. They went through a period of slow business and laid most of them off. At first it was literally down to just him and the president of the company and their families that were doing all the work. Then, as business would pick up, they would hire in some temps and almost by accident they realized they did not have to pay benefits if they let them go before 90 days and they could pay them well below industry rates and they were literally chewing holes through each others asses to get in the door.
The light bulb went off and he realized if they do not hire full time employees they don't have to pay out any benefits and they get to pay them crappy wages and they have a practically endless supply of people that they can exploit.
Personally I found this to be amoral. But they went beyond that and recently started doing just what DD is doing above and started hiring unpaid interns. Now business is booming and they have about 30 empolyees and half are temps that they roll out every 89 days and the other half or so are unpaid interns that work their asses off for free and then can't find work when their hitch is done because companies just roll in a new wave of unpaid interns!
He was bragging to me one day at lunch that he has one employee that is commuting 300 miles a day and he pays him $9 an hour and makes the guy provide his own tools and punch in and out of a clock for lunch. He went on to say I'd never get a veteran guy to tolerate this. He said with a smirk that after paying for gasoline, taxes, tools, and basic things like lunch he was lucky if he was clearing $25 a week. Then went on to say how much business they were getting and that they would have to be expanding soon.
So they now have three times the staff they used to have, only pay half of them, and the half they pay at sub industry wages with no benefits. He just bought a new 2.5 million dollar house and vacation home in Italy. Meanwhile I have sat for sevaral years looking for an engineering job and I have over 25 years of experience, a Phd, masters, and two bachelors degrees but can't find work in large part because of this new "work experience" scam.
So there is nothing anyone is going to say to make me believe this is anything but what it clearly is, a way for greedy business majors to exploit people for free labor and no one is never going to justify it to me!
update:
I asked him once if he would get sub par employees with this model and his response was "We are an at will state (meaning you can be fired without reason or cause) and so we may get a few lumps of coal but we also get diamonds as well and it tends to balance out in our favor."
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675
Last edited by ctbram; 31-03-2012 at 01:33 PM.
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10
31-03-2012
, 01:15 PM
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11
31-03-2012
, 01:18 PM
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"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675
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12
31-03-2012
, 01:25 PM
The thin red line
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13
31-03-2012
, 01:32 PM
Lead Modeler - Framestore
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Absolutely without a doubt its greed. Im just saying how it is and what can and most likely does happen.So there is nothing you are going to say to make me believe this is anything but what it clearly is, a way for greedy business majors to exploit people for free labor and you are never going to justify it to me!
sometimes, I know of a guy that gets shed loads more than his peers, he's a waste of space, and in the past has not impressed me with his work ethic or attitude.....so many blaggers in the industry too....At the end of the day if you pay peanuts you get monkeys
Jay
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14
31-03-2012
, 01:43 PM
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Accepting work in any form without pay or regulation is just an invitation for corruption and abuse. I see no incentive for a business person to provide "experience" so in the end they would have to pay someone more money if they hired them.
I prefer the old system where you hired trainees and paid them wages relative to their skill and experience. With the incentive that if they work hard, and do well, they will be paid higher wages in return for their skills and experience.
However, business schools teach the Gordon Gecco - greed is good philosophy to their students, with the end result being that 90 percent could not spell ethics let alone understand what the word means. The best and most successful would happily push their mothers off a bridge or toss them under a buss for a quarter. I do not believe for a second that any businessman sincerely believes they are hiring unpaid interns to give them anything, that in the end, would cost them money.
This new system seriously bones new workers trying to get into their industry because they have to be able to live on nothing while getting to and from work with no guarantee of gainful employment in the end. It screws experienced workers by it pushing wages down because they have to compete with the new wave of recently trained interns willing to work for peanuts.
Just when I think that business pukes cannot sink any lower, they now are trying to call "working for free" and by the way earning them money, some kind of "school training" and are charging tuition fees in addition to the money they make for the free labor! Seriously, It make me want to not live on this planet anymore!
These poor kids are getting "schooled" alright and not in the good meaning of the word!
But you know I cannot fully blame the businessmen either. People that are short sighted and do not realize that in the end they are negatively affecting their own future livelihood by undervaluing themselves and their skills is their own fault. If a banker sets a gun on the table and someone picks it up, puts it to their own head, and pulls the trigger it's not the bankers fault for providing the gun.
"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675
Last edited by ctbram; 31-03-2012 at 07:03 PM.
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15
31-03-2012
, 05:12 PM
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