Digital humans the art of the digital double
Ever wanted to know how digital doubles are created in the movie industry? This course will give you an insight into how it's done.
#
31
20-11-2011
, 11:52 AM
Lead Modeler - Framestore
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Have a read thru the topology thread anyway. Dont just focus on that one image that Vlad provided. That image has been around for years. The guy that created the model is Steve Stahlberg who is an excellent character modeller. His technique however does tend to include 5 sided faces, which if you dont understand his reason for it can lead you astray. So I would suggest keep everything four sided, as this is safer, cleaner and far easier to manage mesh issues.
Also I would recommend getting the mesh layed out before you start tuning the eyes and the lips as you already have. The reason for this is because the more you do in the early detailwise the more difficult it becomes to cleanup if you decide to change the edge flow.
Also if you can afford to do so, I suggest you download our Character modelling tute that I did of Chef Ramsay. Its very easy to follow. It will also advise you on the dreaded ear area.
cheers
Jay
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32
20-11-2011
, 01:07 PM
Noober than noob
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I've read pretty much the whole thread, seen some head models that looked more realistic than others, but the difficult part would be trying to imitate the edgeflow of them while I'm in current situation (everything except the place where the neck will be extruded is made of four sided polys, but any edit to add a different kind of edge flow will cause triangles that need fixing).Overall its a good start.
Have a read thru the topology thread anyway. Dont just focus on that one image that Vlad provided. That image has been around for years. The guy that created the model is Steve Stahlberg who is an excellent character modeller. His technique however does tend to include 5 sided faces, which if you dont understand his reason for it can lead you astray. So I would suggest keep everything four sided, as this is safer, cleaner and far easier to manage mesh issues.
Also I would recommend getting the mesh layed out before you start tuning the eyes and the lips as you already have. The reason for this is because the more you do in the early detailwise the more difficult it becomes to cleanup if you decide to change the edge flow.
Also if you can afford to do so, I suggest you download our Character modelling tute that I did of Chef Ramsay. Its very easy to follow. It will also advise you on the dreaded ear area.
cheers
Jay
I'm still working on obtaining a more realistic chin and making the character's face (which I want to be somewhat round for this character).
I'm waiting to see if I'll get paid this month, if not I'll have to wait for longer to download the tutorial. I'm still wondering which one I could buy that I'll be needing the most: rigging tutorial or modeling?
On 3ds max it was easy to model because of the quick switch between smooth and low poly. You could create the ear by a few extrusions and arrange those to form the ear lines. Though I'm not sure how many ngons or triangles have been formed that way, it's been a long time since I bothered with that.
The HD mode on Maya just makes the edges into curves (even though you get a preview of your smoothed mesh). Also, smooth proxy can be annoying sometimes.
Edit: I've noticed something I didn't notice earlier. There is a tutorial about making ears in it. Will save a backup of my work and try to make the ear once I'll finish modeling the face.
Last edited by SilverFeather; 20-11-2011 at 02:02 PM.
#
33
20-11-2011
, 04:41 PM
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Well if you are modelling I would suggest the modelling tutorial. It does include the ear being built from eight poly already on the side of the head, so theres no need to make a separate one to attach later....
cheers
Jay
#
34
20-11-2011
, 05:01 PM
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Yes but it doesn't show the exact number of polys that will form after smoothing. If I hit mesh> Smooth, it will gain even more polys than I already have, whereas HD view doesn't show them, it shows the edges only and I've heard that there is a way to reverse a smoothed mesh back to a basic one by reducing the subdivisions. I forgot where I saw that though. But by the time I'll smooth it, I have to finish the whole half of the body.well switching between 3 and 1 on the keyboard will save heaps of time so you can preview your mesh smooth. Thats really the idea of it.
Well if you are modelling I would suggest the modelling tutorial. It does include the ear being built from eight poly already on the side of the head, so theres no need to make a separate one to attach later....
cheers
Jay
I'm not going to stay at modeling, the goal is to go to the point of animation and what ever is needed to make a movie. So that would mean I'd have more need to learn rigging (that is in the Surfing with the Alien tutorial) and more about nCloth (with which I have a lot of difficulties, such as not being able to assign more than one Nucleus to a single collider mesh, because one mesh can be a collider for just one Nucleus apparently, unless I've missed something).
I know that the ear in this tutorial is separate https://www.creativecrash.com/tutoria...-30/page2#tabs but it probably can be done while having an already existing mesh, provided that there are enough edges to form this ear, since the mesh is only half I can also look from the inside with no problems.
#
35
20-11-2011
, 05:31 PM
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Well in all seriousness, you can work out you final mesh smooth with resorting to actually doing it. If your final model comprises of 700 poly and you do a subdivison level smooth of 1 each poly is going to split into four so that will give you 2800 polys for your final model which is very light.
As a full time modeller this is what I tend to do so you can gauge the final model, not worry about keep adding extra history nodes. So that smooth preview is essential and the poly count can wait until the end. If you do it properly you'll never keep worrying about it anyway as you can add an approximation node to smooth it at render time if you are using Mental Ray, so you'll never need to smooth it physically.
Yeah you can assign more than one nucleus to the one collider, I did it for that tute if I recall correctly
Jay
#
36
20-11-2011
, 05:50 PM
Noober than noob
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I'll try and if I can't, I'll have the backup anyway. But seems easy.I see well that ear looks very painful to do that way so good luck with that. Theres more than eight polys from its original extrude so.....
Well in all seriousness, you can work out you final mesh smooth with resorting to actually doing it. If your final model comprises of 700 poly and you do a subdivison level smooth of 1 each poly is going to split into four so that will give you 2800 polys for your final model which is very light.
As a full time modeller this is what I tend to do so you can gauge the final model, not worry about keep adding extra history nodes. So that smooth preview is essential and the poly count can wait until the end. If you do it properly you'll never keep worrying about it anyway as you can add an approximation node to smooth it at render time if you are using Mental Ray, so you'll never need to smooth it physically.
Yeah you can assign more than one nucleus to the one collider, I did it for that tute if I recall correctly
Jay
I use Maya software for faster rendering. Mental Ray slows stuff down too much and the culprit seemed to be the hair I've added to my first model. (the rat fur preset) even though I've removed most of the lighting effects on the hair and turned it all black and short.
Will I eventually need to use Mental Ray if I want to add shadows / reflections? (although I've noticed Software renderer displaying reflections of the blinn textures and some shadows)
About the Nucleus: I've had the following setting on the first model:
T-Shirt using nucleus1.
Jacket using nucleus2.
Character body acting as rigidBody1 (or something like that). Assigned to nucleus1.
Wanted to add the same character body as rigidBody2 so that the Jacket could sit just like the T-shirt did over the character body.
Error: Character body will not gain a rigidBody2 status, it stays at 1. Bottom box says only "Result:" as if nothing happened.
So the only way to solve it was to use nucleus1 on jacket as well, but that made the T-shirt stick to the Jacket...
Last edited by SilverFeather; 20-11-2011 at 05:54 PM.
#
37
20-11-2011
, 05:54 PM
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Just out of curiosity, did you bind the clothing first and weight it?
J
#
38
20-11-2011
, 06:00 PM
Noober than noob
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Well, currently software renderer seems to do the work in half the time mental ray does. (comparing SR 30-50 seconds to 1 minute and a few seconds of MR for only fur rendering) But I agree on the result, MR shows stuff better from the distance while SR makes stuff such as hair seem to become rarer from the distance.Software Renderer is a bit slower really. The result wont be as good at the end of the day.
Just out of curiosity, did you bind the clothing first and weight it?
J
I don't think I did (except made some parts of the jacket and T-shirt point towards the character but not sure what you are referring to if it's not cloth constraining).
I didn't change the weight, but what I meant was that the jacket kept slipping through the character like a ghost while the T-shirt sat on it. Not that the jacket kept floating.
Or if you meant when I assigned them both to nucleus1, I didn't leave the gravity on anymore, I got mad that the clothes kept moving when not needed to move while the character just sat still, even with lowest gravity.
Last edited by SilverFeather; 20-11-2011 at 06:10 PM.
#
39
20-11-2011
, 08:00 PM
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The chin's still not good enough and still having some problem with the area around the mouth.
Head top still needs more rounding.
#
40
21-11-2011
, 10:14 AM
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Simply Maya Tutorial Low Poly Hand - Part 1 of 8 - YouTube
#
41
21-11-2011
, 12:28 PM
Noober than noob
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Hello. Thank you for the video, it also pointed out a lot of errors I made before while I modeled hands. I used to keep a 1-square distance between the fingers that I extruded.Good on you for starting again with the model, looks much better already. This is not a head but a hand, however you'll get there with the body and it might help you with edge flow and keeping your base mesh under control at this stage as well.
Simply Maya Tutorial Low Poly Hand - Part 1 of 8 - YouTube
I wonder if I can expand the hand out of the body mesh since I'll have 4 quads in there available to form that cube.
Hope Maya 2012 has the same settings for merging meshes. Otherwise I'll have to research the equivalent tools.
#
42
21-11-2011
, 06:38 PM
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I read your other thread as well and I think your movie project is very ambitious, I'm not saying it to be nasty I just don't want you to drive yourself mad. Few professional artists make movies all on their own it's a pretty daunting task, and if you jump between all different fields you'll end up mastering none. Have you thought about focusing on one field in Maya say modeling, at least for now, and joining a collaborative project instead? This way you could concentrate on one thing and get good at that plus get some practical experience of how these things come together and work with other artists on something that might turn out to be a really nice project and portfolio piece for you in the end.
Nilla
#
43
21-11-2011
, 07:11 PM
Noober than noob
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I never said I wanted to be a professional. I just want to reach the medium level of a 3D animator.Glad it helped. Settings for the Maya modeling set has changed very little between versions so it should work just fine.
I read your other thread as well and I think your movie project is very ambitious, I'm not saying it to be nasty I just don't want you to drive yourself mad. Few professional artists make movies all on their own it's a pretty daunting task, and if you jump between all different fields you'll end up mastering none. Have you thought about focusing on one field in Maya say modeling, at least for now, and joining a collaborative project instead? This way you could concentrate on one thing and get good at that plus get some practical experience of how these things come together and work with other artists on something that might turn out to be a really nice project and portfolio piece for you in the end.
Nilla
I know, it won't be easy, but it's a dream of mine for a long time to create animation. If I had a job in this domain and a team, I'd gladly work with them, but since there's almost no business like that around here (Romania) nor proper training school for this kind of stuff... And I cannot leave the country either anyway. Tough luck on my part. Plus, if it were, I'd have to concentrate on the needs and ideas of the company, not on an idea that I have.
I will probably never work in the 3D industries because I ask this question to myself: does Romania even have such a thing? When was last time Romania ever made a good 3D animation movie at the very least?
So, in the case that I'll just be stuck with repairing computers / updating websites for a living, I'm just trying to keep this as a hobby or a goal that I want to achieve in life. Of course, I could have started off with Flash instead, but I don't like it.
Friends of mine used 3ds max to do some animation (but they took the easy way, all their characters are made out of meshes including hair). It was long ago that one of them I've met online showed me a few tricks and stuff they could animate, other one has made animations for a game company trailer but she doesn't work for them, it was just for fun. She barely uses any advanced stuff though in max.
In turn I wanted to start off some kind of cartoon just to do it as a hobby but I chose Maya since it has more stuff than max, although I liked Max's easy rigging.
My first rigs in 3ds max were for birds, not too advanced though, it was just for a test so it wasn't too smooth and the feet didn't get rigged properly so I gave up. This was made back in 2008 or 2009 I don't remember when. Other one I no longer have the video or GIF of, but some pics.
Last edited by SilverFeather; 21-11-2011 at 07:17 PM.
#
44
21-11-2011
, 09:50 PM
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Really the trick is just persistence. You have redone this head and it looks much better than your first attempt and if the timeline is any indication you have become exponentially better since this one is not even close to the one month mark. Many things just take time and repetition. I first learned C4D since the Maya version wasn't sold in 64bit on the mac when I was starting out. Since then I have dumped the mac and built a PC. Do I regret learning that instead of the industry juggernaut of Maya. Nah, just a different path and at the end of the road all apps are the same at this point. Maya is the most complete of all packages in my mind. C4D just being easier. These guys on this forum will help you out though and know what they are doing. That is why I come here over the C4D forums since those guys can mainly only create simple text effects and they abuse the mograph module like it is the holy grail to job opportunities. I never liked the mograph stuff and always loved the character and rigging side of things. On the opposite end you get the reverse at CGSociety. They are good but chalk full of negativity (here and there). But many state that the most fragile form of thought is creativity and inspiration. You must build it up and not kill it. Just keep at it and as you said before keep the poly counts low. There is a wealth of info out there and abuse the resources....
btw, thanks for the free hand tut jay. Too bad it only has 13,000 hits because it is exceptionally well done...
best
Collin Bishop
Last edited by Chavfister; 22-11-2011 at 12:05 AM.
#
45
21-11-2011
, 10:21 PM
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Yeah CGSociety...to edgey and somewhat complacent with heads so far up their own arses you can barely see their legs sticking out.
Silverfeather: Nilla isnt assuming you want to be a professional. She is using them as an example: that few professionals make movies by themselves because of the tasks involved in CG...thats all.
Jay
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