Steampunk Goggles

# 1 14-01-2012 , 01:35 PM

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Here's my ongoing steam goggles. I am self taught, been into 3d for about 9 months. I got bored with the current project and thought it would be good to get some comments. I need some advices generally. Some advices on edge flow and poly count would be good also. I have very few experience in texturing and materializing, i know the work flow but never really worked hard on finishing texturing process on any of my models. When i think i have a nice mesh and finished model, i start texturing and applying mats. And when the result is bad i start thinking that the model is not good enough. So is it worth texturing, or will it look realistic when a texture pro works on it?
I also have some zbrush experience but having some problems getting a good skin. The problem with the leather skin (big main part) is, i get too hard edges. What i am doing wrong with zbrush? I will get the maps later at the end, right now i just wanted to see how it looks and got a preview like zbrush import. There it goes...

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Last edited by goggles; 15-01-2012 at 01:04 AM.

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# 2 19-01-2012 , 09:28 PM

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Some more details added... And i think this is the final model... Any thoughts or suggestions about detail level?

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# 3 19-01-2012 , 09:33 PM

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Try doing a occlusion render on it that would show up the detail better, theres a free tutorial on this site if you dont know how...........dave

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# 4 19-01-2012 , 09:45 PM

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Erm yeah...Dave nevermind the occlusion...did you not notice the high poly count there??

Goggles: You should reduce the polycount it doesnt need to be so high. I model in the movie industry and you really need to keep the models optimized, so the same really can be said for the home/hobbyist.

I'll do a quick mesh in a bit to give you an idea. Depending on the type of renderer you are using...Im guessing mental ray here, you can apply a node called an approximation node to a mesh and it will smooth the model in the render on a model with less polys but achieve the same result. Also you can just press 3 on the keyboard to obtain a preview smooth of the mesh in the viewport...it will render smoothly as well (again with less polys) We have a tute on here for the approximation node as well. I believe its free.

There are minor differences with an approximation node and smooth preview in the final tessellation in the render...one will be less smooth but the difference isnt instantly recognisable unless you look for it.

Can you be a bit more precise with what is happening in Zbrush please...

Jay

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# 5 19-01-2012 , 10:03 PM

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Okay heres a 5 minute model and render from a cylinder with 12 divisions.

The top image is the base mesh with smooth preview in openGL. You can see where Ive added an extra loop either side of the outer edges to keep it sharp where I need it.

The following images are renders....the top one is with a Mental ray Approx node and the second is standard smooth preview. If you overlay the images in PS you will see the smooth preview is less round than the one with the approx node...hope this helps

Jay

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# 6 19-01-2012 , 10:54 PM

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Yes Jay I did notice the high poly count but if this is a stand alone model whats the problem?..............dave

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# 7 19-01-2012 , 10:59 PM

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Dave: I am going to check that occlusion tutorial for a better preview render. 1 of the images in my first message (the has occlusion but i didnt get the sense i made it right. I will have to check more about this occlusion render topic and open a new thread if i need 1 in the help section.

Jay: The whole model is 96.120 tris currently (without the leather piece). I thought it might be better for a still render, since i am not going to put that model in an engine or animate this. I havent cleaned the model yet, like the unseen faces... Number will drop slightly when i do. The pieces are subdivision level 2, some of them are 3 since i saw some corners in subdivision mode. bad polygonal modelling may have caused this maybe. I took the render with hitting the 3 key.

Definitely will check the approx node more.

For the big pieces, i created cylinders with 32 or 64 axis divisions. and hit 3 for render. Some parts with very sharp edges are still polygonal. I don't know how to make pro settings before getting a render and when i took the wireframe render i realised that i might have chosen 12 or 16 axis instead of 32 or 64 for some pieces. Maybe it can drop to around 50 or 60K if i chose the right number. Do you think 96k is too much even for a still render?

An inquiry: I am still experimenting on modelling and having problem putting information pieces together about the general idea of modelling as a self taught learner. I have seen many tutorials. I think i learned most of the functions of maya in modelling. But i have never seen a video tutorial which explains the general idea for the functionality of different modelling techniques. This kind of information is always given in tutorials as hints. And learners are putting the necessary information together they learn here and there. I am planning to search some books on this, but as an instructional designer i prefer video learning on some occasions. Ofc it is a learning path, and some people have the chance to start as a junior level artist and gain experience on related subjects. But if theres no comprehensive video tutorial on " How to model for what? " it might be very useful for self learners or even people that are preparing theirselves for the industry.

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# 8 19-01-2012 , 11:06 PM

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Oh, for the zbrush part... I deleted the message including zbrush concerns. I think i have to make more practice on surface detailing on zbrush. I am sure i can do a better leather piece if get more into it. I think that message with the zbrush topic was extra in this thread. Will work on it and read more in previous threads.

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# 9 19-01-2012 , 11:46 PM

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Dave: So if this was a stand alone model, you would do this too then...is that what you are saying? user added image

Jay

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# 10 19-01-2012 , 11:59 PM

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Goggles:

Mmm. You dont have to model so hi rez....regardless of the models nature, whether to be animated or not....its just a bit of careful planning. The last thing you want to do is start deleting polys, edges or what ever...its such a waste and bad practice (unless it really does call for it)

Yeah tutorials can be hit or miss, though one organic tute and a hardsurface will see you right....just take it onboard and apply the techniques to whatever you are modelling, a character or otherwise.

With the amount of polys on the mesh....its pretty pointless hitting the preview smooth option...unless of course you like a slow render time....something else that will benefit from optimal meshes....render times will decrease as theys less to triangulate for the render engine.

Just be sensible with it. We have a topology thread here https://simplymaya.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24483 that may be useful to you

Jay

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# 11 20-01-2012 , 08:49 AM

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Nice model.....Im not getting between you and dave Jay LOL...but I dont think poly count is OVERLY important on static models...there is a limit though...this model is heavy I admit. If you have a difficult part that needs booelan (the B word) or similar..then I think high poly is ok...of course that may only be one portion of the model. Reductions in this case could be achieved yes....but I have heavy poly models sometimes..just for the finess side of it. Sometimes using bevels isnt enough...it also depends on how close the camera will be to said object.

Im kind of on the fence on this one....I dont think poly count matters for static BUT there are places for heavy and light poly...even on the one model. user added image

This will look cool textured

cheers bullet

bullet1968

"A Darkness at Sethanon", a book I aspire to model some of the charcters and scenes

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# 12 20-01-2012 , 09:56 AM

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Okay well each to their own opinion....And I apologise if this sounds harsh, but I'd say dont kid yourselves and justify the fact of it being a 'still' as none of you are actually animating your stuff and yet your polycounts are probably half this. Tanks and planes alike. So why arent your own project choc full of polys.....basically because you know its impractical....

Dont profess to others what you dont actually do yourselves. I'm trying to put forward here to Goggles a more optimal way of doing stuff...he's trying to learn modelling.

I tend to look at this type of thing from every possible situation.One situation would be if this was a still image and was for a client. If they asked you for changes in various areas....imagine the ballache of moving stuff about.

you'll end up looking back at this in a year and wonder why the hell it was modelled so high res.........

you know Im right.....

J

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# 13 20-01-2012 , 05:33 PM

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I tried to model a few pieces again to see the poly count and how it looks. It looks the same and have less than 1/3 of the current polycount. I think i could have done this model with 40-50 k and have the same look.

I think you are both right about what you say. "In my case" low poly won't make much difference. But yea, i need to learn how to get the minimum weight with having the same look. Most of the pieces are not organic and low poly would do in that case i think. I don't have a client but yea when i consider using that model for something in the future i will think its heavy.
Still didnt have time to check the occ and approx... Will work on that.

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# 14 24-01-2012 , 05:39 PM

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I am with Jay on this one guys..while in theory it doesn't seem to matter about poly count for a still , the unforeseeable problems it can cause later makes it impractical and lets be honest its a much better practice to learn to optimize the modeling as a general workflow and it can only stand you in good stead for future projects.

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# 15 24-01-2012 , 07:18 PM

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I agree, I think the poly count can be reduced more here, for the reasons already mentioned. And since you mentioned about Zbrush, you can just generate a displacement map on level 1, export your level 1 mesh into Maya and render and have the same quality details as you sculpted in Zbrush. No need to smooth your object in Maya so much.

Allow me to show you an example here (no hijack intended).

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Steampunk Goggles

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