When to use Sub d Crease tool

# 1 17-09-2012 , 09:44 PM

Mattkb
Join Date: Aug 2012

Posts: 5

I've searched the net and this forum for ages and I can't find an answer to my question so I'm going to post and hopefully find and answer, sorry if it's a completely noob question

I bought the Ferrari tutorial from Simply Maya (its fantastic by the way), and the tutor converts from poly to Sub d, he then adds creases to the edges around the door etc and converts back to polygons for final render. The result is a great render but a slightly ugly topology due to returning back to poly. I've also seen other tutorials for other types of models where the technique for creating tighter edges is to place edge loops close to each other (I believe it's called 'holding edges) on the base mesh and applying smoothing only at render time. This method seems harder but results in better topology.

My question is: I'm wanting to make a photo real car for my portfolio designed for films tv etc not games. Is it better to add the edge loops on the base mesh or better to use Sub d creasing? What do you normally use and why? I notice a lot of answers on similar subjects saying "its down to personal preference", but surely theirs more to it. What's best for a portfolio where they look at modeling techniques and topology etc. Thanks for your help in advance guys.

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# 2 17-09-2012 , 11:08 PM

Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011

Posts: 55

HEY MATTHEWKB, second choice of what you call " holding edges " is what is more preferable because you see that if you don't have correct topology, you may run into some problems :

such as stretched reflections or highlights
sub-d is not used much anywhere outside maya so if you have to keep the mesh as poly then better stick to the topology used for poly alone.....

there may be more reasons,.....lets see what others think about it !!

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# 3 18-09-2012 , 08:56 AM

Mattkb
Join Date: Aug 2012

Posts: 5

That was what i was thinking, as the fundamentals of poly modeling can be used on any software, and if you can show that you can do it without Sub d creases, you can do it with them as its just a case of converting to Sub d and then applying them. I was wondering though, how come when searching for car modeling tutorials, (I use this website, Gnomon, and Digital Tutors mostly), you only really see the Sub d creasing method being used?? It started me thinking that the Sub d creasing method was the better/more up to date method of modeling.

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# 4 18-09-2012 , 02:56 PM

Mattkb
Join Date: Aug 2012

Posts: 5

Anybody else???

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# 5 18-09-2012 , 02:59 PM

The thin red line
Join Date: Aug 2009

Location: England

Posts: 4,472

I would not use maya subD's they course a few problems when you go back to poplys and some time a shader problem..............dave

Avatar Challenge Winner 2010

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# 6 18-09-2012 , 06:41 PM

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Join Date: Jun 2009

Location: Prague

Posts: 827

I was wondering though, how come when searching for car modeling tutorials, (I use this website, Gnomon, and Digital Tutors mostly), you only really see the Sub d creasing method being used?? It started me thinking that the Sub d creasing method was the better/more up to date method of modeling.

Originally Posted by matthewkb

The car modeling tuts on all these sites are quite old, done before the adding of polysmooth in Maya. It doesn't mean that the methods used are wrong, but it does mean that their not always the most up to date. On the upside the basic workflow for modeling and texturing doesn't really change (hence 13 hour modeling tuts are rarely remade), but more possibilities might be there than six years ago.

I'll quote Jay;

I've always been a fan of subdivisions, but since the introduction of polysmooth (keyboard 3) I tend to use this option more as it's just easier to jump from a faceted mesh to a smooth one, without the fuss of looking for a shelf command or going to the convert menu set.

Originally Posted by

I think trial and error and finding out what works for you is the way to go.

For the holding edges method be a bit careful, some people become total smooth addicts. And it could be argued that you shouldn't really be smoothing hard surface models, especially not when taken into consideration that stuff built in Maya is to be animated and no one will ever see your perfect model as the camera moves. Rick made a good video on this topic.

Bevel vs Smooth in Maya 2012 on Vimeo

There's also the possibility of using approximation nodes for a lot of things, like this;

Maya Tutorial Mental Ray Approximation Editor on Vimeo

Now lets hope someone in the know dives in with an opinion on these sub d's user added image

Glad you like the Ferrari, the texturing section is really good for explaining how to detail models through textures rather than geometry so you don't end up with a polygon monster and I think understanding this matters a lot if you want to work in film.

Nilla

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# 7 18-09-2012 , 08:03 PM

Mattkb
Join Date: Aug 2012

Posts: 5

AllThank you to you all. This is really useful and definitely starting to give me a better understanding of what to do.

Thank you for the videos MISS_NOVA there both very interesting. The first one about beveling has opened my eyes a bit, I agree with what's being said in it, and can definatly see me using this for more square shapes, sizes or objects in the distance. I'm just wondering how would I go around making a highly detailed shot of the car standing still in a scene, and where the car is the final point, using no smoothing algorithm? I understand that bevels could be applied on door edges etc, but what about the cars silhouette, e.g the bonnet etc. What would the work flow be like? Would I make a low poly car mesh then use poly smooth to add more resolution to make the silhouette smoother then add bevels to the car doors etc before the final stage of playing around with normal smoothing? Sorry to ask its just something I'm rather confused about. I understand how to poly model a basic mesh for something using the tools but when it comes to make a final smoothed render version I have no idea.

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# 8 18-09-2012 , 08:26 PM

The thin red line
Join Date: Aug 2009

Location: England

Posts: 4,472

I think I asked simular questions as you some time back when to smooth or not, it all comes down to experience im afraid, if you look at the WIP section most of the car modeller will us polys or some with a bit more experience will us nurb then convert to poly...............dave

Avatar Challenge Winner 2010

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# 9 18-09-2012 , 08:50 PM

Mattkb
Join Date: Aug 2012

Posts: 5

Thanks dave, and I think I know what you mean. For example if an asset was in mid range of the camera I could probably get away with a low poly mesh and then bevel the edges, it will have some faciting on the silhouette but when the depth of field etc is added to the cam you probably won't notice. (I could maybe even use normal maps if more detail was needed).

However if their was a car that was the focal point in front of the previously described faceted one (above), and this was to look high resolution and photo real, with the camera rotating around it, then I would make a low poly mesh, add holding/support edges, then use a smoothing algorithm at render time? (I have decided I want to only use polygons in my model that's why their has been no ref to Sub ds in this example)

Also this could be used on different parts of the car. For example, if the exterior of the car was the focal point but the interior wasn't, I would smooth the exterior, but could probably get away with beveling
the interior as it doesn't need to be super smooth as you would never get close enough to see the
faciting anyway.

Am I thinking along the right lines?

Last edited by matthewkb; 19-09-2012 at 07:47 PM.

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# 10 19-09-2012 , 12:38 PM

Administrator
Join Date: Jun 2009

Location: Prague

Posts: 827

Dave's right, build the car and these questions will answer themselves along the way. I say start a thread here https://simplymaya.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=34 and get modeling, there's a lot of good modelers who will chime in and help along the way I'm sure.

People tend to be more inclined to help when you're working on a project, and it's easier to troubleshoot stuff. Also, practice makes perfect user added image

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When to use Sub d Crease tool

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