Grumman F8F-1B Bearcat - Page 4 - Simply Maya User Community

# 46 31-10-2011 , 06:30 PM

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Thanks Jay I figure to start cutting up the wing next. I keep putting the main gear off until the end as it will be the most complicated part. And I still have to do the cockpit.

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

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# 47 02-11-2011 , 02:22 PM

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Started cutting the wing up...

-Root section
-Flap
-Tip section
-Aileron
-Trim Tab
-Bulkheads
-Landing gear opening

To do on the wing...

Will be reducing some of the edges on the wing root once I have all the details added.

-nav light asm
-hinges
-wing folding mechanics
-corrugation detailing

remaining bits...

Still a lot of detail stuff to go. Like the main landing gear and gear bays details and cockpit. I have the tailwheel section completed as well as the main landing gear fuselage kicker door. The main gear and wing folding linkages will be the tough parts.

NOTE: The bulkhead edges are showing through the surface because they are very close. I set the near clip plane as high as possible but unless I zoom in closer the edges are still visible. They are under the surface and do not show in renders.

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

Last edited by ctbram; 02-11-2011 at 02:30 PM.

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# 48 02-11-2011 , 11:15 PM

As Zbrushiac sounds stupid!
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You're no fun ctbram.... there's nothing to critique! user added image

Looking really nice man.

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# 49 03-11-2011 , 12:52 AM

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Thanks M.

Aileron hinges done and the pitote tube. Flap hinges and then some trim bits and the nav light. Then the wing folding mechanics. Then on to the landing gear. I am really anxious to get the gear done.

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

Last edited by ctbram; 03-11-2011 at 12:55 AM.

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# 50 03-11-2011 , 08:58 AM

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Very nice detail, I agree with Mayaniac no crit.............dave

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# 51 03-11-2011 , 06:28 PM

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I was experimenting with adding the corrugation / ribbing detail as a bump map. It works well but now I cannot do any ambient occlusion renders because I cannot figure out how to combine the lambert with the bump map to the surface shader with the mib amb_occ node?!?

So here are some renders wo/ao...

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

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# 52 03-11-2011 , 09:28 PM

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If you were to add it as displacement rather than bump, it would work just fine. Just an idea.

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# 53 04-11-2011 , 12:26 AM

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I was avoiding displacement. It adds a shit ton of messy geometry at render time and I mean messy! If you try to get in close it looks like total shit! To tame the jaggies you have to smooth the model a gazillion times. Displacement is just a horrible option to be avoided at all costs. I have used it to model embossed text but only because modeling inset text would be a nightmare. For raised text I would still choose to render it seperately and stuff it into the surface or use bump.

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

Last edited by ctbram; 04-11-2011 at 01:09 AM.

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# 54 04-11-2011 , 01:32 AM

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So now I am torn. I get more accurate looking corrugation with bump but then I cannot get an ao render. Displacement creates a bloody mess. Modeling the corrugation is time consuming and not as accurate looking.

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

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# 55 04-11-2011 , 03:07 AM

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I will add the bump and ao without the bump and worry about it later. The bump is subtle enough that I don't think the little kick ao would add will be noticeable in the final.

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

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# 56 04-11-2011 , 10:22 AM

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There is no reason why a displacement map, used correctly, creates a mess. Neither is it required to subdivide the model a gazillion times to get one to work correctly. To say that displacement maps "are to be avoided at all costs" indicates that you are not using them correctly - do you think that they are avoided in the industry in general? How do you think that ultra fine detail is added?

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# 57 04-11-2011 , 10:52 AM

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If I am not using them "correctly" it is only because people that know how to use them "correctly" do not seem to want to share the information. I am always open to learning new things though.

I have searched for hours on the web and cannot find anything that really goes into any detail on how to use displacement maps correctly. There are no instructions or examples as part of the Maya documentation that goes into any detail about how to use displacement maps correctly.

They all say the same thing basically - (1) create a grey scale map (2) create a shader and apply the map (3) apply the shader to the uv'd part (4) pick the parts shape node and click calculate bounding box (5) render. There are, a bunch of other options in the shape nodes displacement section but not decent documentation on what they do or how to adjust them.

Do you want to write up something on how to use them "correctly" because I have played with them and they produce and rats nest of messy geometry, jagged and messy displacements with little to no control over edge flow and tessellation density.

Below are the displacement grey scale map and the results when applied and the tessellation generated.

In addition to the messy geometry and the jagged edges it inflates the model and now it intersect other geometry (although this is to be expected and I'd just have to move the part to accommodate the inflation). But unless I can get clean geometry it's pointless.

In the end there is the same problem to be solved. How do you apply a mib_amb_occ + maya surface shader to the shader with the displacement map? You can plug the ao shader group into the amb color of the displacement lambert and that does not work or you can plug it into the color group and it works but you get different diffuse color on the part with the disp+ao then the parts with just the ao. So now you have to create another lambert and plug the ao into its color and then put this on all the other parts. This works but takes 20 minutes to render!

So if you want to describe how to do it correctly and get clean displacement geometry as opposed to the crap below along with the network for applying just ao to some parts and ao+disp to others, please do, it would be appreciated.

Thanks

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"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

Last edited by ctbram; 04-11-2011 at 11:35 AM.

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# 58 04-11-2011 , 12:02 PM

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You seem to take this very personally. No need to write "correctly" in quotation marks every time, as if I've insulted you by using the word. If I get a chance at the weekend I will have a look and try something at home.

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# 59 04-11-2011 , 02:46 PM

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No no, please do not take it in the wrong way. I only meant to emphasize that I may not be doing things in the right way, in agreement with you. As I said I only have the information I have researched to base the displacement map workflow I am using on and as you can see the results are questionable.

I apologize if I seemed to take offense by what you said. Not at all and I would be appreciative as I am sure others would be for anything you can do to describe how to get more successful looking displacements.

I would be happy to upload the aileron or the flap geo and the bump and uv maps I have for them if it would help you out.

Just let me know in a PM or in this thread.

Thanks in advance,
Rick M

"If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of giants." Sir Isaac Newton, 1675

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